EP 03: Why Smart Women Still Undervalue Themselves

In this episode, we break down the real reasons behind self-doubt, imposter syndrome, and the hidden ways women play small in their careers, finances, and relationships.

Candace and Jackie share honest stories and practical tools to help you build confidence, negotiate your worth, and stop thinking success is limited. From shifting scarcity mindsets to creating a strong support system, this conversation is all about owning your value—without apology.

In this episode:
• How to stop undervaluing yourself
• Overcoming imposter syndrome
• Confidence tips for work & life
• How to negotiate and ask for more
• Why women supporting women changes everything

If you're ready to stop shrinking and start showing up with confidence, this is your moment.

Follow us on Instagram: @wtf_womentalkfinance | Youtube: WTF! Women Talk Finance | The Founders Office: foundersoffice.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm Jackie. I'm Candace. And this is WTF.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Grab your coffee, wine, water bottle, emotional support snack, no judgment. And let's get into it. Welcome to WTF. Women talk finance.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

The future, friends, freedom.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Oh, freedom.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Fun. Fantasies. Fanfiction. Fanfiction. Okay, let's actually, before we dive into all those things, let's start with F. We're gonna talk today about why smart women still undervalue themselves, even though they know better.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. I feel like this is such a topic that's timely for us because it's something you and I have been working on for years.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

And probably still a few years.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Still work through it. Like ever-evolving journey. Um, we are like a buddy system in this journey, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Well, and where do we see it? Like everywhere. Women within their families, women within their friendships, definitely women within finance, fitness, fitness, yeah, we do. And it's it's like you're well in finance, in work, in your career, it's rates, it's raises, it's ownership, it's what you're what you deserve, what you've earned, what you're worthy of, what your value is, and it's this confidence thing. We don't think we maybe intrinsically know or have a question mark like, God, I really think I can do this. Why am I being treated like it's still here?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

We just had a conversation with a friend right before recording, and she was talking about how what she wanted to make and what she felt like her value was were way far apart.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

She had a number that popped into her head, like I would love to make that. That's what I and then the next thought immediately was but that's not realistic.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

It's not realistic, and we know this person very well, she's amazing. It is realistic from where I'm gonna be. Looking at her and knowing who she is, I'm like, girl, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly the number. And if you go in and get that number, they're still lucky to have you at that number. 100%, yeah, 100%. But we find a way to talk ourselves out of it before we go into the room. And we did an episode on negotiating, and it's the the stats are shocking for how few women negotiate their salary going into a job, negotiating benefits, and then typically women don't ever go back to the negotiating table after they've gotten the job. They don't go back a year in and say because we're taught be grateful for what you have, be cute.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

And yes, there is it's it's the it's dichotomous because part of me is I do, I enjoy my life, I love my life, I am grateful for my life, I am grateful for all the opportunities and what I do have and what I am making and what I am doing and earning and blah blah blah. And there's room for me to be more grateful.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think too, the last couple years has been super interesting for us because we have done a lot of work for people and either undervalued ourselves or did it for free, yeah. Like, which is obviously undervalued, but that's so off the charts undervaluing. I mean, or we were like, okay, yeah, like we'll align our success with yours.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

And as if we needed to keep learning that lesson over and over and over and over and over again, it's like we need to like claw our way out a little bit to go, no, we're not gonna sit on the phone with you for the umpteenth time for the third hour. Yes, yeah, and now we're holding each other accountable. Yeah, it's great to have a buddy system because I recognize the value in you that sometimes I can't see in myself, and sometimes it's easier for me to fight for your value than it is to fight for my value, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, so I see I like that idea, the suggestion of a buddy system. Have someone that sees you and that you know sees you, and like just check me on this. Yeah. And I need to hear it, I need the validation. I love hearing like stop, what are you doing? Stop. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Yeah, what about in a space though that is inherently competitive, especially where maybe women are pitted in a competition against each other? Almost I'm thinking like meds, like like drug pharmaceutical sales reps or real estate or anything that is more of a like you and I are not in competition. We always just work, we work together. When you win, I win. When I win, you win. Um, how do women support each other and support and recognize and cheer on the value in others in a competitive space?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I think you can still have competition, but the idea that there's a finite pie needs to go away. Like there's a finite pizza or a finite pie or something that we're dividing, and that if you take more of the pie that inherently means there's less for me. I think that view needs to go away. Yeah, it's infinite, there's more for everyone. You getting three pieces of pizza doesn't mean I can't have 28 pieces of pizza. Or you know what I mean? Or you can have 49, like it's infinite. Yeah, so we can still and not compete, but others out there, women can compete, but it's more of like an energetic competition. Like, I just want to be the better version of myself. I know that I could have worked half an hour today and then I could have calmed down and taken whatever I needed. Like it's almost like competing with others is almost competing with yourself, just to be a better version of yourself. Yeah, you can be in sales and go out there and have hit your numbers, yeah. And by doing that, you're competing with the others out there, but it's it's not a finite pie, and so changing that lens, I think, allows both.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I think there's such a like global societal shift too that would need to happen to really push this culture of support over the line. Because I think of like what's on TV right now, so many shows are women competing against each other in like this professional space. Give an example the that there's like that real estate show.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

There's a few of those to mind. Like there's those real estate shows, and it's women that are I mean, probably very good at their I I don't know. I don't watch I I've seen a few episodes. The show is set up like a game though, like a competition. It feels competitive, um, and it is a competitive industry.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Well, even the show fix it or fix it or flip it or flip. One person is in charge of fixing the house, and one person is in charge of selling the house. Yes. And they're competing, like pick me, pick me, pick my choice. Yeah. So yeah, it's designed.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

It's designed to be competitive. But oh, that's selling sunset, that's the show. There's they're all professional um realtors, brokers in Southern California. There's there's no limit to the pie. Like you're totally right. The it's a it's there's no like in like there's no finite. There's four houses. They can literally all do really well. And they all are so dolled up, like, we're like, and if that makes them happy, I'm thrilled for them to to be to to have hours of wardrobe and happy. You have to look hot as fuck to sell a house. You probably do have to look hot as fuck to sell a house. Um and I feel like the show is less about the reason I didn't like the show was it's less about how interesting and professional and awesome these women are, and it's more about like who looks a certain way and who's the meanest bitch on there. And the meanest one sells the house. I mean, it just is kind of, yeah, it's just gross and it kind of excuse me. Oh sneeze. They might come in threes. Perfect. Okay, one. Ooh, can we get a little counter? Sneeze one. Okay. And I'm like, ooh, that's that spurs the idea of meme bitch, get yours, get out the way. And I have to put on this mask. I have to put this on. Because you know the dudes on that show threw on a on a probably a very nice suit that morning, but they threw on a suit and some shoes and showed up. And these women probably spent four hours trying to get ready to to sell.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

They didn't. They would have had a glam squad.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

They have a glam squad.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

That got them ready to sell and do the show.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah. And it's again, I go back to like, is that the mask to feel like you're worthy to be at the table? And ooh, I gotta put on this mean bitch mask, and I've got because I I can't count on a supportive space.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah. Well, and it perpetuates that narrative for other women that if you don't look a certain way, if you don't act a certain way, you don't get if you don't take what's yours, yeah, you're not gonna get your value. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

You can have a board, investors, advisors, and still have nobody you can actually talk to about what is really going on. That is not unusual. That is the founder reality. And we step in right there. I'm Tom Powell, and at the founder's office, we're proud to sponsor Women Talk Finance.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

You have a benchmark, like, yeah. Um I think it's so contradictory to how I've worked with women, and I think because for me, it felt like so much of, and you and I've talked about this before, I think on the show, so much of what we've done is just trying to like trick ourselves into believing we could be in the room a little bit sometimes. And sometimes we were too scared to ask the questions, so we would text each other.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

And now we've gotten to a place of I'm proud of us.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

We ask the question, we ask the questions. We'll preface it by saying, I have a dumb question, and for both of us, I'd love that. We can work on that. We can work on that. Um let's challenge each other to go into a meeting and each take a turn saying, I have a really intelligent question.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Oh my god, I love that. First of all, that would totally have worked with our last meeting. I think that would have been well received.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

It would have been well received, and actually, there are some people that would presume we're being sarcastic. I want us to go in and challenge ourselves to say, I actually have a really intelligent question. I'm not familiar with this complex, sophisticated structure you're presenting. Yeah, but I have a really thoughtful question that matters, and it's an intelligent question.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Oh my god! I got that, and I think that goes back to you are no longer undervaluing. Anytime you say I've got a dumb question, you've undervalued yourself.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

You're in that room for a reason. You're apologizing for who you are and what you know in that moment by saying I have a dumb question.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yeah, we are in a small group of awesome kick-ass women. Like that is who we work with every day.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

And every single one has a different value that they bring. And I think that's so important to recognize is that I and I think it maybe even goes back to school of like you have to be good at all the things. I feel like we were always raised, like, work on those weaknesses, and it's like, or just be really strong in your strengths, right? And so understanding that my value is in my strengths, and in that room and in your vulnerability, and in my vulnerability, yes, for sure. And what I was bringing to the table didn't need to be an A plus in everybody else's area of value, because you have your own A's. Because I have my own A plus. Yeah, and that's great.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

I don't need to be an A plus in everybody else's category because I was responsible for my category.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I didn't want to bring this up earlier, but if you're not an A plus in more categories, I was gonna have to have a friend break up with you. You were gonna wake up with me. Yeah, I'm keeping a I'm keeping a scorecard of all the categories where you have A pluses, and you've got like 15 A pluses, but there's a couple categories where you're just not there yet. And for me, I need I need my friends to have an A plus.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Full 4. Down.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

No weaknesses, perfection. Don't take that the wrong way. I'm it's a heads up.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Perfection all the way.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, that's all it is.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Is one of them that I have to grow a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

I'm loving the need to be taller.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I have a warning. You need me to get to 5'3. I need to get up to 5'3 this year, or you're gonna dump me. My value is not in being tall.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So twisted. Um okay. It's not true.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

I feel like yeah, I know, I know. She's joking. She still loves me with my like I love you so much. 2.8 report card. Um you're totally point eight. It's funny, like, I brought up my hype, but it is funny because sometimes I don't know. Uh uh, somebody that we've worked with, he recognized. He said, uh, we were just having a conversation about he brought some gray hair to the room, to the table, which was great. He said, It it's gotta be hard to be a a young. It's so hard being this young. Yes. A young, like little gal in a room. And I he's like, I'm bringing young and petite. Yeah, he's like, I'm bringing 6'3, dude. People automatically see me as an authority. Uh and I thought that was very insightful for him to see that, like, sometimes, yeah, like just simply appearance walking into a room, it's like you have to hold yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

I don't know if people do that with you. Like, it's very well known you're a yogi, and I wonder how people perceive, like, oh, she's a yogi attorney. Is she like what what am I getting?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I think people do perceive I my personality tends toward nice, yeah. People pleasing. I am a like, I want to make you happy, like I want to please, I don't want to disappoint you. Totally. And I think people pick up on that for better and worse.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

And then they get your fuck you letter, and it is. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

They didn't expect that. Um, it is, it's very, and I also think changing this narrative for ourselves, like how going back to the thing about the dumb question. How many times have you listened to women or men, you know, raise their hand, ask questions, and how many times have you in your head been like, that's a dumb question? Never. No, it doesn't happen. You we appreciate each other naturally for the different values and skills we have, and we give people the grace of like, of course they'd ask that question, it's not dumb. They would have no reason to know this, that, or whatever. Yes, right, but we don't give that same grace to ourselves until now. Till now today. We're changing that narrative and we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Starting from now.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

We're just gonna announce that we have a really sharp brilliant question.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

I'm here, I've arrived, I'm paying attention.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I think that's I think there's also a fear too of women. Sometimes I don't want to seem arrogant if I walk into the room like I think I'm hot shit. It's such a balancing act.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yes, yeah, but sometimes you are hot shit, so you just we're not wearing masks. So walk into the room and be the hot shit. Wait for us to get to that phase in life where we walk in and announce like the hot shit is here. We're here, motherfuckers. The hot shit's here. You can we can start now.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, I've arrived. You may begin. How do we get even a drop of that? How do we get a healthy drop of that? Healthy drop. Healthy drop. There is a healthy drop. There's a healthy drop. There's a total healthy drop.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I do think real, like honestly, in meetings, I would like for me and for you to not feel that we have to start when we ask a question with a pre-appro a pre-apology or pre preface. Like, I have a dumb question. Like, yeah, let's just ask.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Yeah. I have a question. This is a question. It's a perfectly fine thing to say. So can we challenge each other and all of our listeners? Please remove well, first of all, D the dumb word, the D word is the worst word in my house. Oh yes, we are not allowed to say that word. It's the D word, and it is the worst of the worst. Because there's no way to use it in a nice way about yourself, about anybody, right? Yep. You can use fuck in a great loving. It's a it's all it's a universal word. I don't care if my kids really say it, although they can get a little lippy. But um, bitch is same. Yeah. Because you can call somebody a bitch in a nice way.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

There's an energy.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

But there is like no way to use dumb in a nice way. Zero way, right? And so why would we say that about ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Why would we say that about some magical unicorn dust that's coming out of our brain?

unknown 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Don't call it dumb. So everybody, like, I do want to stop using that about myself, about others. I don't use it about others. I really, that word is exclusively reserved for my own thoughts, which is terrible.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, that's how we that's how we are, but we can work to not be that way.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Ever really smart question. Ever really intelligent question. I like that for us. Yeah. And inviting our audience to try that as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Because I did think your question was super smart.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

It was super smart.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

It was really smart. And I needed it to fill in the gaps.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

I'm practicing right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Are you having a hard time?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

No, a little bit. Okay. I'm having a little reaction. I'm I'm moving into my back body, and I'm saying it was a really smart question. Yeah. And I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just acknowledging it was a it was a smart question. It was a very smart question.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah. Thank you. So it's yours. Thanks. Thank you. Because I said I have a dumber question. So not only was I dissing your question, I was dissing it.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

I didn't think of it that way. As a countability part, we can do better. We can move to an A plus on this.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yeah. I think getting older too has helped a lot with feeling like we belong in the room a little bit more. I wonder. We've seen a lot, to be honest. We've seen a lot. But I still have imposter syndrome. I do too. I've been in so many rooms. I've done a lot in my career. And there's still so many times where I show up and I'm like, I don't think I'm supposed to be here. I don't know if I should be in this room.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Stop that.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Thanks. Done. Easy fix. But I wonder how many other women feel that way. I like letters at the end of your name. Decades of experience, a lot of track record, and you're still sometimes showing up going like Am I adding value? Did I do what I was supposed to do? And almost like needing that outside reassurance.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Yeah. In all categories, in career.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

In friendships, in parenthood, in in everything.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Everything.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah. Needing validation a little bit. In society. Yeah. We're supposed to be here. Yeah. Kind of necessary.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

We're the point.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah. We're part of the point.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah. Now we're getting into philosophy.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

We talk about philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And like Mother Nature. Like this plant is whispering to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Mother Nature is because we are woo-woo. We are so woo-woo.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

She's got a lot to say.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, it's a beautiful plant. It's a gorgeous plant. What is this? Is this a fiddle leaf fig?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

No, the leaves are bigger. Those are like round. I don't know what this is.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I have a plant app that can identify it.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

We'll take a look. This is obviously big content.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Thanks for joining our conversation. Let's wrap for now. Uh join us this season for WTF.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Who knows what we're gonna do? WTF. We have so many great guests this season. That's we have a ton of awesome guests. We have women doing so many cool things in the world, and I'm just I like I do have they I have imposter syndrome sometimes meeting some of these women because I'm like you're so cool. You're so rad. Oh my god. Do you want to be on our podcast? Yes. It's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah, I am excited about our guests.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

It's a really cool lineup, so I'm really excited to have them, and I think building this, continuing to build this community. After a hiatus, like continuing to build this space where we can like lift each other up in the world of content pitting women against each other. Let's be the space of opening doors, cheering on. Yep. There are no dumb questions here. Snapping for our gals who are doing awesome shit, who are in the room because they earned that spot in the room. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

And continuing the conversation. I love it. I love you. I love you. Bye. Bye. Okay. That was today's episode of WTF.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

If you laughed, learned something, or felt a little less alone, make sure you hit follow.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

And send this episode to a friend who might need it. Women don't gatekeep, especially not the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

We'll be back next week with more real talk, more stories, and probably more over sharing.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

See you next time on WTF.